Abusive / unfair fines

JusticeForAll · 2022-12-04T14:42:23+00:00

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JusticeForAll

Hi all,

The purpose of this message is to raise awareness about SBB’s fining methodology, and to expose such behaviour among this community.

A couple of months ago I was given a fine for activating the easy ride 20 seconds too late. Departure time: 15:02 hs, activation time: 15:02. So, within the same minute.
I understand the terms and conditions, but in the end, rules and laws must be interpreted and analysed consciously. A plain text cannot consider all possible scenarios.
As I got to the train platform I needed to make a decision and had two options:

1- Miss the train.

2- Get on the train and buy a ticket or activate easy ride.

i chose option 2, and easyride activation. As you may have realised, the app takes sometimes several seconds to complete the geolocation. But I was finally able to activate it on time (or that’s what I thought).
Half an hour later, the controller came and I confidently showed my ticket. She said I activated it too late and gave me a fine. I am not going to elaborate here on how much I tried to explain that she was making a wrong decision, that there is no way someone could conclude I was trying to cheat; nor will I comment on her rudeness and unprofessional attitude.
Long story short, I was given a fine for not having a valid ticket. Total amount: 125 CHF (35 CHF for the ticket, 90 CHF for the fine -“surcharge”-).
Not to my surprise, and contradictory enough, I received an invoice from SBB for my trip using easy ride, and was charged for it 35 CHF. Therefore, the ticket, as per SBB, was valid.
So, as funny and annoying as it sounds, SBB charged me for a valid ticket and -at the same time - gave me a fine that included the ticket fare and the surcharge for “not having a valid ticket”.
When I called customer service, they offered me a discount of the surcharge from 90 to 30 CHF, and of course removed the ticket value from it. So, the debt was immediately changed from 125 CHF to 30 CHF. What a nice gesture from SBB, isn’t it?
This, and many other cases I’ve known of, tell me that SBB considers fines a profit centre. And while 125, or 30 CHF, might not be too much for one customer. Imagine how much money they make taking money from millions of passengers just because they think they can do it.

The majority of the people will pay because they don’t want to spend time arguing, simply don’t want to argue, or because they are afraid of being involved in the bigger problem: “the debtors black list”. Ihave exchanged too many emails with the SBB team and we have not been able to solve the dispute. For me, It’s not about the 30 CHF, which would have actually been 125 CHF had I not called SBB to complain. It’s about fairness, customer abuse avoidance, and differentiating right from wrong.

I encourage us to stop this.
Because SBB knows that we can’t choose another service provider, they do whatever they want. Those of us who don’t own a car have to use the train. And SBB is the only option.

Note: lately, we’ve been experiencing a poor service on a regular basis, with cancellations, delays, missed connections, that make us arrive late to work or home. BUT, SBB gives me a fine because I activated easyride 20 seconds too late.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Kind regards.

StéphanieB1

Good evening JusticeForAll

We are sorry for the inconvenience.

Please contact Service Center Revenue directly on 0848 00 11 33 or email fahrausweiskontrolle@sbb.ch regarding the fine.

I understand your annoyance. Basically, we always recommend buying the ticket before boarding the train (purchase completed when you see the QR code). If you get on the train the minute of the actual departure, search for the trip, go through the purchase process and the train is already leaving, it is effectively too late.

Have a nice day,
StéphanieB

JusticeForAll

StéphanieB1

Hi StéphanieB,

thank you for your reply. That’s why I chose to use Easy ride instead. It was faster than buying the ticket.
I have already called and exchanged several emails. Unfortunately, they don’t want to understand that the fine does not apply, and that the whole situation is abusive.
it should be simple.

1) the geolocation takes several seconds.

2) the controller only checked my ticket 30 mins later.

3) SBB charged me a valid ticket, despite the fine.

4) SBB service is anything but punctual, lately.
5) how much more would I have had to pay, had I purchased the ticket 20 seconds earlier? Zero!!!

Best regards.

alpenglow

StéphanieB1

I think this is effectively what should be called “abusive terms and conditions”. SBB is a monopolist so the typical narrative of contractual freedom does not apply, because there is none.

In my view, there is no reasonable justification for the terms and conditions to state that a ticket must be bought before entering the train or the schedule departure. This probably made sense many years ago when you could not buy a ticket after entering the train, but in particular with EasyRide this ruling is somewhere between anachronistic or purposefully constructed in bad faith.

In the end, the key question should be:
1. Did somebody activity EasyRide on time to pay the fully appropriate ticket price vs. a lower price by intentionally activating it late,
2. Did somebody activate EasyRide long enough before an inspection so that there is no obvious motive of avoiding a fine after an inspection was imminent?

The current terms and conditions do not follow a reasonable and fair standard.

In the particular case of the OP, I do not see any justifiable reason why OP should be fined at all since there was no substantial wrongdoing by OP.
Quite the opposite, in this specific case I think one can argue that SBB is exploiting OP’s clumsiness in an unfair way.

Finally, since SBB is a monopolist, it would only be fair that SBB’s customers should have a vote on the terms and conditions similar how it is done e.g. at Migros.
If such a standard is upheld in that case, at least one could argue that it is democratically legitimized whereas now it’s just one unelected monopolist elite ruling over the people.

RolandP

Hello alpenglow

Thank you for your comment. I would like to respond to your post, as there are some incorrect statements in it.

Please note that the EasyRide function isn’t exclusively used by SBB, it’s an industry standard based on Fairtiq, which is used by all Swiss public transport providers, not just SBB. Both EasyRide and Fairtiq technologies are based on the national ticket tariff, which is based on the national public transportation code. However, nobody is forced to use EasyRide if the person does not agree to its G&Ts.

It is essential to activate EasyRide at the station of departure. Activating it two minutes too late may result in the passenger paying less than he/she actually rode. Especially in suburban areas, activating it later will register the next station, for example, Zürich Hardbrücke instead of Zürich HB.

You mention fairness: it is true that it is imperative for all passengers to possess a valid train ticket at the trains’ departure, irrespective of the method of acquiring it - EasyRide is not an exception. This is equitable, as the rule is uniform for all and prevents unnecessary discussions during the ticket verification process.

SBB recommends activating EasyRide before entering the train, in order to ensure that the ticket is available upon departure. According to the tariff, the passenger must have activated EasyRide by the time the train leaves

Kind regards,
Roland

alpenglow

RolandP

Hi RolandP, unfortunately your argument is a bit besides the point. My main argument is: Independent of EasyRide / Fairtiq, the standard itself that tickets must always be purchased before the scheduled departure is in itself an abusive T&C / tariff condition in such cases where it makes no difference.
You mention urban areas such as Zurich as an example, but this again is not really an argument.
It is typically verifiable whether Fairtiq was started late in such a way that it makes a difference on the fare vs. in any way where it makes no difference on the fair.

The only standard, as I previously explained, should be whether somebody did pay the full fare and whether it was significantly before an inspection (i.e. there was no obvious motive to only pay the fare because an inspection was imminent).

Punishing anyone for buying a ticket 2 minutes late as long as it makes no difference in fare price and as long as an inspection only takes place significantly later (e.g. at least 10 minutes later), is not OK, irrespective of whether EasyRide or traditional manual app purchase or whatever alternative form of purchase you could theoretically use.

SBB’s mantra of: “Oh, but then we would have more discussions about whether a ticket was valid” is insufficient. They are a service company and catching a train just in time, which can result in buying a ticket within 2 minutes after departure not before, is a valid concern of the typical train user and should therefore be a regularly permitted practice. The current T&C is not democratically legitimized in spite of the monopolistic nature of SBB, not in the customers’ best interest and is abusive and unfair in certain edge cases as the one from OP.

It’s the same with errors in your tax declaration: In Germany, Austria and in Switzerland, you can not be punished nor fined for wrongful tax declarations as long as the wrongful declaration does not result in paying less taxes. SBB should follow such a standard, not the anachronistic N-minutes rule which makes no sense in the digital age. SBB’s current standard is illegitimate.