Hi all, The purpose of this message is to raise awareness about SBB’s fining methodology, and to expose such behaviour among this community. A couple of months ago I was given a fine for activating the easy ride 20 seconds too late. Departure time: 15:02 hs, activation time: 15:02. So, within the same minute. I understand the terms and conditions, but in the end, rules and laws must be interpreted and analysed consciously. A plain text cannot consider all possible scenarios. As I got to the train platform I needed to make a decision and had two options: 1- Miss the train. 2- Get on the train and buy a ticket or activate easy ride. i chose option 2, and easyride activation. As you may have realised, the app takes sometimes several seconds to complete the geolocation. But I was finally able to activate it on time (or that’s what I thought). Half an hour later, the controller came and I confidently showed my ticket. She said I activated it too late and gave me a fine. I am not going to elaborate here on how much I tried to explain that she was making a wrong decision, that there is no way someone could conclude I was trying to cheat; nor will I comment on her rudeness and unprofessional attitude. Long story short, I was given a fine for not having a valid ticket. Total amount: 125 CHF (35 CHF for the ticket, 90 CHF for the fine -“surcharge”-). Not to my surprise, and contradictory enough, I received an invoice from SBB for my trip using easy ride, and was charged for it 35 CHF. Therefore, the ticket, as per SBB, was valid. So, as funny and annoying as it sounds, SBB charged me for a valid ticket and -at the same time - gave me a fine that included the ticket fare and the surcharge for “not having a valid ticket”. When I called customer service, they offered me a discount of the surcharge from 90 to 30 CHF, and of course removed the ticket value from it. So, the debt was immediately changed from 125 CHF to 30 CHF. What a nice gesture from SBB, isn’t it? This, and many other cases I’ve known of, tell me that SBB considers fines a profit centre. And while 125, or 30 CHF, might not be too much for one customer. Imagine how much money they make taking money from millions of passengers just because they think they can do it. The majority of the people will pay because they don’t want to spend time arguing, simply don’t want to argue, or because they are afraid of being involved in the bigger problem: “the debtors black list”. Ihave exchanged too many emails with the SBB team and we have not been able to solve the dispute. For me, It’s not about the 30 CHF, which would have actually been 125 CHF had I not called SBB to complain. It’s about fairness, customer abuse avoidance, and differentiating right from wrong. I encourage us to stop this. Because SBB knows that we can’t choose another service provider, they do whatever they want. Those of us who don’t own a car have to use the train. And SBB is the only option. Note: lately, we’ve been experiencing a poor service on a regular basis, with cancellations, delays, missed connections, that make us arrive late to work or home. BUT, SBB gives me a fine because I activated easyride 20 seconds too late. Thank you for taking the time to read this. Kind regards.

Good evening @"JusticeForAll"#p12746 We are sorry for the inconvenience. Please contact Service Center Revenue directly on 0848 00 11 33 or email fahrausweiskontrolle@sbb.ch regarding the fine. I understand your annoyance. Basically, we always recommend buying the ticket before boarding the train (purchase completed when you see the QR code). If you get on the train the minute of the actual departure, search for the trip, go through the purchase process and the train is already leaving, it is effectively too late. Have a nice day, StéphanieB

@"StéphanieB1"#p12762 Hi StéphanieB, thank you for your reply. That’s why I chose to use Easy ride instead. It was faster than buying the ticket. I have already called and exchanged several emails. Unfortunately, they don’t want to understand that the fine does not apply, and that the whole situation is abusive. it should be simple. 1) the geolocation takes several seconds. 2) the controller only checked my ticket 30 mins later. 3) SBB charged me a valid ticket, despite the fine. 4) SBB service is anything but punctual, lately. 5) how much more would I have had to pay, had I purchased the ticket 20 seconds earlier? Zero!!! Best regards.

@"StéphanieB1"#p12762 I think this is effectively what should be called "abusive terms and conditions". SBB is a monopolist so the typical narrative of contractual freedom does not apply, because there is none. In my view, there is no reasonable justification for the terms and conditions to state that a ticket must be bought before entering the train or the schedule departure. This probably made sense many years ago when you could not buy a ticket after entering the train, but in particular with EasyRide this ruling is somewhere between anachronistic or purposefully constructed in bad faith. In the end, the key question should be: 1\. Did somebody activity EasyRide on time to pay the fully appropriate ticket price vs. a lower price by intentionally activating it late, 2\. Did somebody activate EasyRide long enough before an inspection so that there is no obvious motive of avoiding a fine after an inspection was imminent? The current terms and conditions do not follow a reasonable and fair standard. In the particular case of the OP, I do not see any justifiable reason why OP should be fined at all since there was no substantial wrongdoing by OP. Quite the opposite, in this specific case I think one can argue that SBB is exploiting OP's clumsiness in an unfair way. Finally, since SBB is a monopolist, it would only be fair that SBB's customers should have a vote on the terms and conditions similar how it is done e.g. at Migros. If such a standard is upheld in that case, at least one could argue that it is democratically legitimized whereas now it's just one unelected monopolist elite ruling over the people.

Hello @"alpenglow"#p12770 Thank you for your comment. I would like to respond to your post, as there are some incorrect statements in it. Please note that the EasyRide function isn't exclusively used by SBB, it's an industry standard based on Fairtiq, which is used by all Swiss public transport providers, not just SBB. Both EasyRide and Fairtiq technologies are based on the national ticket tariff, which is based on the national public transportation code. However, nobody is forced to use EasyRide if the person does not agree to its G&Ts. It is essential to activate EasyRide at the station of departure. Activating it two minutes too late may result in the passenger paying less than he/she actually rode. Especially in suburban areas, activating it later will register the next station, for example, Zürich Hardbrücke instead of Zürich HB. You mention fairness: it is true that it is imperative for all passengers to possess a valid train ticket at the trains' departure, irrespective of the method of acquiring it - EasyRide is not an exception. This is equitable, as the rule is uniform for all and prevents unnecessary discussions during the ticket verification process. SBB recommends activating EasyRide before entering the train, in order to ensure that the ticket is available upon departure. According to the tariff, the passenger must have activated EasyRide by the time the train leaves Kind regards, Roland

@"RolandP"#p12773 Hi RolandP, unfortunately your argument is a bit besides the point. My main argument is: Independent of EasyRide / Fairtiq, the standard itself that tickets must always be purchased before the scheduled departure is in itself an abusive T&C / tariff condition in such cases where it makes no difference. You mention urban areas such as Zurich as an example, but this again is not really an argument. It is typically verifiable whether Fairtiq was started late in such a way that it makes a difference on the fare vs. in any way where it makes no difference on the fair. The only standard, as I previously explained, should be whether somebody did pay the full fare and whether it was significantly before an inspection (i.e. there was no obvious motive to only pay the fare because an inspection was imminent). Punishing anyone for buying a ticket 2 minutes late as long as it makes no difference in fare price and as long as an inspection only takes place significantly later (e.g. at least 10 minutes later), is not OK, irrespective of whether EasyRide or traditional manual app purchase or whatever alternative form of purchase you could theoretically use. SBB's mantra of: "Oh, but then we would have more discussions about whether a ticket was valid" is insufficient. They are a service company and catching a train just in time, which can result in buying a ticket within 2 minutes after departure not before, is a valid concern of the typical train user and should therefore be a regularly permitted practice. The current T&C is not democratically legitimized in spite of the monopolistic nature of SBB, not in the customers' best interest and is abusive and unfair in certain edge cases as the one from OP. It's the same with errors in your tax declaration: In Germany, Austria and in Switzerland, you can not be punished nor fined for wrongful tax declarations as long as the wrongful declaration does not result in paying less taxes. SBB should follow such a standard, not the anachronistic N-minutes rule which makes no sense in the digital age. SBB's current standard is illegitimate.

@"JusticeForAll"#p12746 It also happen to us, while we are travelling, we are running to catch the train, then we board and activate, it was late but its already activated. then the professional come and charge us a Fine , for activating too late,not to mention that we dont have good service and application might be delayed. Which we are unsure of why its was late i think its very dissapointing, as we are travelling from italy, france and this never happen to us before ( we did late activation before, due to running to a short transfer train) Hopefully they can read this feedback and fix this annoying issue

@"JusticeForAll"#p12746 I thought I should give the community an update on how this situation turned out. SBB put me into the debt collection register. Unfortunately, this is how the system works. I could have gone further with the dispute, but in the meantime I would have remained with a “debt” on my debts report. As we all know, for many things in Switzerland, we need a clear debt ![report.](https://) Therefore, even when I know I am right and that this claim was abusive from SBB side, I had to give up and consider the fine a cost of using the public transport in Switzerland. It is a shame that I had to pay, and that what was 30 CHF at the beginning, ended up being 300 CHF 1,5 years later. I “lost” because the system is setup so that the weak part doesn’t get enough support or representation. In this issue I even involved the Ombudsstelle, who didn’t / couldn’t do anything to protect me as a consumer. As a last resource, because my legal adviser told me it’s not worth initiating legal actions for this amount, I ask SBB one last time. Are you guys committed to delivering a good service? Do you care about your reputation? If so, I ask you to refund the 300 CHF to me, in front of this community. Have integrity. What you did in my case was a theft. In the meantime I keep missing connections due to the poor service offered: trains delayed, connections (train and buses) not waiting enough to allow people to get in. What will you (SBB) do to repair this issue, that I had to pay 300 CHF because I was put into debt collection. Show the community that you care.

We got into the same issue. I was visiting Zurich for a few days. I bought tickets 1 minute after boarding, which was considered a violation by the inspector. As tourists, we couldn't figure out how this system works, but we had to take the train. In my mind, if your rules are so strict, don't sell the tickets after departure. SBB collects the price of the ticket and fines people in addition for not purchasing their product correctly. This is just a pure punishment. I understand when people are caught without a ticket, but when you have a ticket but still get a fine, that's outrageous.

Me too i got fine of 117€ per person. Our flight was delayed to Zürich and we took the next train because we did not made it to the scheduled one. He said our ticket is only valid for one train. Yes it is because was the saver but to charged that amount for each although we actually have a ticket not even just partly fine but with additional and more. That was so unfair and for first time tourists here in Switzerland is also very traumatic. Who and where can we contact for assistance on this matter.

Hello @"Thajiosuz66"#p91579 Supersaver tickets are only valid for the connection chosen upon purchase. This is the string attached, and part of the deal as Supersaver tickets are very discounted, while you give up any flexibility. This is clearly stated when you purchase Supersaver tickets. [upl-image-preview url=https://static.community.sbb.ch/2024-06-11/1718073742-849496-image.png] In the SBB Community, we never do suggest Supersaver tickets when arriving by air, exactly to prevent people from having an invalid ticket when the flight was late. The ticket is no longer valid on another train / connection. If you book a cheap saver air fare, and you arrive late at the airport, you must also purchase a new flight ticket, same with trains here. There is no difference between residents and tourists made during the ticket control. It would not be fair to fine residents, while tourists can simply travel with an invalid ticket. Tourist bonus, yes, but not in cases which were crystal clear, such as the validity of the ticket. Kind regards, Roland

Abusive / unfair fines

Whiennauwai55

I was late so I thought I would not make it, but the train was late too so I ended up being able to get in the train just in time. Buying the ticket 90 seconds after departure is not cheating. Cheating is if the ticket is bought when you see a controller and you buy it. In that case you should get a fine. In my case, I started the process to buy the ticket even before the train departed.
I just find this a rather non customer oriented way of working. The funny thing is that I have never asked for reimbursement in 12 years even when trains were massively delayed or cancelled. If CFF is this strict on tickets I will also ask for reimbursement every time I have a delay.

Krist

Whiennauwai55 I was late so I thought I would not make it, but the train was late too so I ended up being able to get in the train just in time.

What would you have done had you not made the train?

I think you are mistakingly assuming that a ticket is for a train, and that therefor you must know which train you will take before buying the ticket. Tickets are however for a route, not a train. So there is no reason to wait till the last moment with buying one. You can buy your ticket in advance, not know if you will be able to take that particular train, and if you end up not taking it, you take a later one.

In many other countries you would not have been able to get on the platform without a ticket. That you must buy the ticket before boarding is the rule pretty much everywhere. And that the rule is trictly enforced is the price we pay for having a system that has no gates, that has flexible tickets, and frequent service.

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